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Thread: Problema i5 9600k + Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5 Wi-FI MBO

  1. #1 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar

    Problema i5 9600k + Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5 Wi-FI MBO

    Salutare,

    Am urmatoare configuratie :

    i5 9600k + Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5 + Cooler Be Quiet Dark Rock 4

    In momentul achizitiei day one i-am facut O.C 4,7Ghz a functionat perfect, in toate testele nu a depasit 67-70 Grade MAX, spt trecuta cand am incercat sa joc APEX imi tot iestea in timpul jocului, din plictiseala si idiotenie probabil nu stiu de ce am zis sa fac un update la BIOS si am mers pe varianta F14 fiindca F15 era beta, dau restart la PC si intru in APEX, totul mergea perfect nu stiu de ce dar mergea perfect la un moment dat dupa 4-5h de gameplay am simtit o caldura la picioare unde este situata unitatea, zic din curiozitate sa pornesc AFTERBURNER in momentul in care l-am pornit am vazut ca in jocuri aveam 92-93 grade .

    Intru in Bios observ ca totul era default

    PS : O.C L-a facut un baiat care chiar se pricepe tot el a asamblat calculatorul

    Intrebare : Cum este posibil STOCK sa ajunga la temp acelea iar O.C sa stea mai jos .....


    Am vorbit cu acelasi baiat a facut el remote ceva setari acum sta undeva in 72-73 grade la 4,3Ghz ceea ce este decent dar tot crasheaza APEX

    Am intrat pe diferite forumuri si problema ar fi din O.C Apex-ul pe CPU O.C da rateuri

    https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-...t/td-p/7701135


    "I've been doing some testing with the AVX Issues in Apex Legends, and I have found that on fully working CPU's, if they ARE overclocked, the fix is to raise CPU Vcore voltage.

    Apex Legends, if the vcore is too low (on 8th and 9th gen CPU's like the 9900K), you wind up getting strange WHEA correctable errors like Internal Parity error" or "CPU TLB" errors, errors usually you never see anywhere else. The game doesn't even crash if you are "close" to the stable point, you just see errors logged in HWinfo64 and shown in windows event viewer.



    The reason prime95 passes is simple:

    1) prime95 with AVX disabled is SSE2 only so is irrelevant.

    2) prime95 small FFT with AVX enabled is irrelevant because it's a power virus that pulls so many amps that overclocked CPU's will crash due to voltage droop (higher amps=more voltage drop), making the cpu vcore wind up too low for that workload. Or from the cores getting too high temp and then reaching the unstable point for that cpu frequency. However there is a very big difference that everyone is overlooking, besides the 'power virus' component of prime95 small FFT.



    AVX instructions can only access main memory by the # of memory channels, and an i9 9900K only has two memory channels. That means when accessing main memory, only two CPU threads will gain full access to memory via AVX instructions. If you wind up using more threads, the threads wind up competing with each other and the power draw actually goes way down.

    9900K users can see this, if you have access to the voltage regulator VRM registers that monitor "Amps" draw, like on Gigabyte Z390 boards and some MSI Z390 models, the IR 35201 or the Renesas / Intersil (ISL) VRM's, where you see VR VOUT and Current (IOUT) (Amps) shown in HWinfo64.



    Download prime95 29.6 build 7 from the software section of their forum.

    Then run an AVX2 and AVX1 DISABLED test with 1344K in place fixed FFT's (SSE2 instructions) and notice the amps power draw and the power POUT from the VRM. If you don't have access to this, you can use CPU Package Power, although this is sometimes inaccurate on some boards (long story). Write that value down.



    Then run the same test with AVX enabled (disable FMA3 (AVX2)) and notice that the power draw is *LOWER* ! Yes, it's LOWER For AVX than for non AVX !

    That's because the AVX threads are now competing with each other for memory access!



    People noticed this same problem when running LinX testing with certain residual sizes. They noticed that when they enabled hyperthreading, certain sizes had a LOWER speed result (rather than faster) than when they had hyperthreading disabled! It's basically the same issue there.



    Then, try running AVX with small FFT and smallest FFT. (compare that to AVX disabled small FFT). Remember: prime95 29.6 build 7).

    OMG, now it's REALLY pouring on the amps and heat! You're looking now at literally 50% more power draw than AVX disabled!



    But why?
    Simple. Smallest FFT and small FFT are not touching main memory at all! They're running purely in the CPU's L1/L2/L3 caches! So all 16 AVX threads have full access to the caches.

    Thus, any prime95 AVX crashes are going to be completely different than what you would see in Apex (like those bizarre Internal Parity errors or TLB errors) or other internal CPU errors that show up as "Corrected Machine Check". Prime95 errors are far more likely to show up as "Cache Hierarchy Error" due to it hammering the CPU cache intensely, which Apex legends does NOT do.



    As far as WHEA errors with CPUs' running completely stock? Could be faulty hardware. There have been reports of 8700K's and 9900K's just completely dying randomly, which no one has been able to track down the reason for. If someone is getting this at PURE stock speeds, if you downclock the CPU and the problems go away, you need to RMA. It means your silicon is defective.



    Now, again I'm NOT talking about random CTD's or game crashes due to bad code. I'm talking about pure CPU instability that gets logged in event viewer or in HWinfo64 in the Windows Hardware Errors area.



    It is very interesting that Apex Legends is handling AVX instructions differently than Realbench 2.56 (handbrake).



    I've already done some testing and found that 5.1 ghz @ 1.330v (loadline calibration=turbo) was 2 hours stable in Apex. 5 ghz @ 1.255v, 1.260v,1.265v and 1.270v were generating random WHEA's, while 1.275v passed 2 hours (again loadline calibration=Turbo; this is a Gigabyte board). I'm going to do some more tests and see if VCCIO has any effect on this. Probably won't, as VCCIO is supposed to affect the L3 cache, and I still do not know if the "Ring/Cache frequency" is the L3 cache or L2 cache. I guess I'll find out.



    That being said, Apex Legends is now my go to program for real world AVX gaming stability."

  2. #2 SP
    Admin MonkY's Avatar
    Salut. Sincer, ma indoiesc profund ca la un OC la 4,7Ghz aveai doar 67-70 grade maxim. Cum ai testat de ai ajuns la acele valori? Ai testat si in APEX (sau in aceleasi conditii cu cele la care ai ajuns la 92-93 grade)? Multi fac greseala sa testeze OC-ul doar cu Prime sau cine stie ce tester de CPU, dar nu iau in calcul ca in unele jocuri stress-ul e mult mai mare (exact ce spune mai sus cu instructiuni AVX, AVX2, SSE 4.2, etc.), plus load-ul si caldura generata de GPU (placa video).

    Oricum, sfaturi de overclock nu o sa-ti pot da, pentru ca e specific pentru fiecare sistem in parte. Pentru fiecare CPU exista o limita, pentru fiecare placa de baza exista anumite setari care pot duce la instabilitate. Trebuie sa te joci cu voltaje, ai optiuni (gen loadline calibration) unde o simpla modificare poate sa transforme din OC stabil in ceva care crasheaza dupa n ore. Nu stiu cum ti-a facut baiatul modificarile remote, pt. ca sunt multe din aceste optiuni care sunt doar in BIOS. Probabil ar trebui sa-l chemi sa faceti de la zero (din pacate majoritatea setarilor se pierd dupa update de BIOS). Insa OC-ul e chestie de durata... personal nu consider un sistem stabil decat dupa teste de 24h.

    P.S. Also, eu am renuntat de mult la overclock. Ma intereseaza mai mult stabilitatea, sa functioneze 24/7 cat mai rece, iar Turbo e arhisuficient. Dar asta poate si pentru ca nu mai ma joc pe PC, deci nu ma mai intereseaza daca am 230FPS in loc de 220FPS...

  3. #3 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar
    Este prima data cand am optat si eu pentru O.C dar clar si ultima pana acum am avut sisteme stabilie si nici nu cumparam CPU cu K la final. Prima data am testat pc-ul 2h in AIDA24 ( stress test ) max 70C ( tipul care mi-a facut pc-ul mi-a spus ca am pus mana pe un golden chip) eu am zis ok hai sa il lasam daca este atat de stabil si ok.... apoi am mai testat in 3D Mark valorile le-am urmarit cu ajutorul HWiNFO64. Eu acum doresc sa revin back to stock dar cand am incercat acest lucru m-am lovit de urmatoarele :

    Pasul 1 : update nou bios
    Pasul 2 : am obs ca bios este pe standard si doar am activat profilul 1 XMP pentru a putea duce memoriile ram in 3000Mhz
    Pasul 3 : AIDA24 stress test + urmarit valori si voi atasa poze cu valoriile stock !
    Attached Images Attached Images photo-2020-02-14-17-11-01.jpg photo-2020-02-14-18-15-55.jpg photo-2020-02-14-18-29-54.jpg

  4. #4 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar
    Testat in aceasta dimineata totul pe default in BIOS
    Attached Images Attached Images default-load.jpg

  5. #5 SP
    Admin MonkY's Avatar
    Salut. Man, eu acolo cred ca ai o alta problema. Cu racirea! Ia verifica tu te rog, nu care cumva, cand ai updatat BIOS-ul si s-au resetat toate cele, nu cumva ai scazut turatiile la ventilatoare? Nu mai stiu cum e la Gigabyte (sunt fan Asus), dar ar trebui sa ai profil... iar in caz de overclock (si chiar si fara) seteaza-i pe Turbo sau High Performane (nu Standard sau Silent). Also, verifica nu care cumva sa ti se fi desfacut radiatorul de pe CPU, sau poate s-a dus naibii pasta termica (iti recomand sa o inlocuiesti cu Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut). Sau poate ar fi momentul sa pui o racire mai buna (gen Noctua NH-D15, sau macar NH-D14).

    De ce spun asta? Well, pe langa faptul ca ajungi la 94 grade in stock (iti dai seama ca la overclock se ducea si mai sus), imi dau acum seama ca avem procesoare din aceiasi serie. Doar ca eu am i9 9900K si tu ai i5 9600K. Prin urmare, o sa fac acum un test in aceleasi conditii ca tine (cu AIDA65 si HwINFO), pentru ca e prea mult.

    Later: Here we go. Asa cum am zis, am avut dreptate. La mine sare la maxim 77 grade. Si repet, vorbim de un i9 9900K. Deci acolo ai o problema. Bine, poate mai sunt si altele, dar eu n-as mai face nimic pana nu as rezolva cu racirea.
    Attached Images Attached Images 2020-02-18_104913_cr.png

  6. #6 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar
    O sa arunc o privire cand ajung acasa :

    Pasta a fost schimbata in momentul buildului Noiemberie 2018 iar coolerul este BeQuiet Dark Rock 4, crezi ca e nevoie de un update ?

    Multumesc

  7. #7 SP
    Admin MonkY's Avatar
    In functie de ce pasta a folosit, e posibil ca dupa 2 ani sa nu mai fie OK. Dar totusi, nu asa brusc, cum s-a intamplat la tine. N-as zice ca e pasta, ci mai repede posibilitatea sa se fi miscat radiatorul, sa fi scazut viteza la ventilator...

    Coolerul este Dark Rock 4 sau 4 Pro? Daca e Rock 4, pentru un i5 stock ar fi decent. Pentru un i5 9600K cu OC, nu ar mai fi OK. Cu Pro, sau cu ce ti-am zis mai sus, vorbim de altceva. Also, pasta termica buna (cum e cea de ti-am recomandat-o mai sus), iti mai aduce 4-5 grade in minus. Tu trebuie sa te indepartezi cat de mult poti de a sari peste 90 de grade. Fiind un i5 totusi, nu m-as simti bine decat daca ar ramane la un maxim de 75-80 grade.

    P.S. Mai pune si un cooler de carcasa. Sau chiar 2 daca poti. Sau schimba-le pe cele actuale. Sau verifica si la ele cum stai cu turatiile.

  8. #8 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar
    hmm mi-ai deschis putin mintea am obs in aida ca s-a dus max la 1000 RPM din ce vad pe net ar fi un 1400 RPM cat suporta coolerul pasta folosita a fost ARTIC MX 4 Carcasa este un Corsair OBSIDIAN 750 D cu 2 venturi in fata si unul in spate ( STOCK )

    Ma gandeam sa mai cumpar 2 bucati sau chiar 3 dar nu stiu pentru ce sa optez :

    Ventilator 140 mm Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 PWM high-speed 1600 rpm, BL071

    sau

    Ventilator 120 mm Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 PWM high-speed 2200 rpm, BL070

    ---------- Post added 18-02-2020 at 11:32 ----------

    Ma gandeam chiar si la un upgrade de case BE QUIET DARK ROCK PRO 4 V2 dar mi se pare cam mare investitia 1500 RON pentru nu stiu exact cate grade parca mai bine s-ar duce banutii intr-un AIO cred

  9. #9 SP
    Admin MonkY's Avatar
    Arctic MX4 e OK. Un pic sub Kryonaut, dar e OK. 1000 RPM maxim pe coolerul acela e prea putin. Ar trebui sa se duca in full speed la ce temperaturi ai acolo. Repet, verifica profilul. Sau pune-l in full speed all the time (just to be sure).

    La ventilatoare pt. carcasa, as opta pentru cele de 1600 RPM (dar asigura-te ca iti accepta carcasa de 140mm). 2200 RPM sunt cam prea mult pt. carcasa. Dar sincer, cred ca te arunci un pic prea sus... coolere de carcasa de peste 100 RON? Cred ca totusi la 50-60 lei gasesti ventilatoare decente. Undeva pe la 1200RPM de 120mm, si ar trebui sa fie si suficient de silent si sa miste si ceva aer.

    Nu iti trebuie investitie de 1500 RON. Cred ca tot ce ai nevoie acolo e un cooler mai bun (e 400 lei un NH-D15). Daca zici ca ai deja cele 3 ventilatoare fata/spate, nu ar trebui decat sa te joci un pic cu PWM-ul, sa le dai turatie mai mare. Nu stiu cum sunt stock, dar incearca sa le duci la peste 1000 RPM. Ca sa-ti faci o idee, la mine testul de mai sus a fost cu ele sub 1000 RPM (ba chiar 6-800 RPM). Dar recunosc, la mine in birou e mai rece, si carcasa e mult mai mare.

    P.S. Hai ca pe langa cei 400 lei dati pe cooler, daca tot vrei sa fii mai safe, ai putea sa pui in partea de sus inca 2 sau 3 ventilatoare. Dar repet, alea de 100 lei bucata sunt overkill... 3 ventilatoare la 50-60 lei should do the trick. Asta cu conditia ca totusi carcasa sa aiba open space in partea de sus, ca daca e bagata sub un birou ceva, sau e obturata partea superioara, nu ai facut nimic. Practic o sa scoata pe-acolo aerul cald si o sa-ti ajunga inapoi in carcasa...

    Bafta!

  10. #10 SP
    Member PumaS's Avatar
    Adaugat 2 venturi TOP :

    Ventilator 120 mm Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 PWM high-speed 2200 rpm, BL070

    Plus pasta recomandata de Monky

    Pasta termoconductoare Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut 11.1g / 3ml

    Aida dupa 40 de min
    Attached Images Attached Images ceva-mai-bine.jpeg

  11. #11 SP
    Admin MonkY's Avatar
    Eeeh, alta viata. Congrats!

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